Conversation with Benjamín Ochavano, Peru 2002
Howard G Charing and Peter Cloudsley interviewed Shipibo Ayahuasca Shaman Benjamin Ochavano in the Amazon jungle of Peru, who is in his seventies to discuss how Ayahuasca can help those Westerners seeking personal growth who have embarked on the great journey of self-discovery and exploration.
Indigenous peoples and early civilizations have developed the uses of powerful hallucinogenic plants such as Ayahuasca for thousands of years, and their effects are highly dependent on the context of the ceremony, the chants, and the essential personality of the shaman, all of which can vary. with amazing results.
Various urban uses have emerged recently and some of them are spreading, while some traditional shamans travel the world, so Ayahuasca is gaining recognition in Western civilization. But what really is the potential of these ancient plants and how can we get the most out of them?
I started taking ayahuasca at the age of 10, with my father, who was also a shaman. When I was 15 years old, he took me to the jungle to eat plant diets, no one saw us for a whole year, we had no contact with women, nothing. We lived in a simple tambo sleeping on sheets with only a sheet over us. We made diets with plants: ayauma, puchatekicaspi, pucarobona, huairacaspi, verenaquu.
I would take each plant for 2 months before moving on to the next, a whole year without women! The only fish allowed is boquichico, a vegetarian fish and plantain mash that is made into a thick drink called pururuco in shipibo, or sugar-free chapo.
Then I had about a year off before going back to my uncle, José Sánchez, for another year and 7 months of diet in the little Río Pisqui. He taught me a lot and he gave me chonta, rattlesnake, hergon, nacanaca, cayucayu. He was a chontero, a kind of shaman who works with darts (in the spirit world), so called because the real darts and arrows for hunting are made from the black splintered bamboo called chonta. A chontero can throw darts with positive effects such as knowledge and power as well, and knows how to suck and remove poisoned darts that have caused illnesses or diseases.
To finish he gave me chullachaqui caspi. Then I started living with my wife and working as a healer in Juancito in Ucayali. Then I went to Pucallpa where I still live part of the time that I am not in my community of Paoyhan, where my Ani Sheati project is.
The most important master plant is Ayauma chullachaqui. Then Pucalo puno (quechua) the bark of a tree that grows up to 40 or 50 meters. This is one of several herbs that is consumed in conjunction with tobacco and is so strong that you only need to take it twice. Requires a 6 month diet. You drink it in the morning, then you go to bed, you’re in an altered state for a whole day afterward.
Another plant is the Catahua whose resin is cooked with tobacco. You must make sure that no one sees you while you are taking it. It puts you in a dream of powerful dreams.
Ajosquiro is from a tree that grows up to 20m, with a penetrating aroma like garlic. It gives you mental strength, it is very healing and makes you strong. It eliminates feelings of laziness, it gives you courage and self-esteem, but it can be used to explore the negative and positive side. You can be alone in nature and feel in the company of many. It introduces you to the psycho-magical world that we have inherited from our ancestors, the great morayos (=Shamans in Shipibo) so that you can acquire knowledge on how to heal with plants.
The word ‘shaman’ is recent in the Amazon (originating from Asia through the western world in the last 10-20 years). My father was known as moraya or banco, or curandero in Spanish. A healer can specialize in being a good chontero or a shitanero that hurts people.
Virjilio Salvan, who is now dead, now dead, presented me with a plant that he said was better than any other plant: Palo Bordador, maestro de todos los palos (master of all plants). You smoke it in a pipe for 8 days, blowing the smoke over your body. On the eighth day a man appears, as real as we are, a Shipibo. He was a chaycuni, an enchanted being with a typical costume… cushma or woven tunic, beaded necklace, etc., and he told me: ‘Benjamín, why did you smoke my tree?’
‘Because I want to learn’ I said. ‘Since I was little I wanted to be Moraya’
“You must diet and smoke my tree for 3 months, no more,” he said. ‘And you can eat any fish you want…it won’t matter’…and he listed all the fish he could eat. “But you must not sleep with any woman who is not your wife,” she said. And I have followed this advice to this day.
Three nights later, sounds were heard from under the ground and large holes opened up and the wind blew. Then everyone, the whole family started to fly. And from that day I was moraya.
Today I still fast on Sundays.
What do you think of Westerners coming to take plants in the Amazon?
It is good that they come to learn, that we share and that there is an exchange. This is what I would like to do in my community of Paoyhan. But the Ecuadorians stole our outboard motor.
How might plants from the Amazon help people in the West?
It can open our minds so that we can find ways to help each other. It can help them find more self-fulfilment in life. If a person is very shy, for example, it can help warm his heart, give him strength and courage.
They have a different system in their countries, when we travel there we feel underestimated just like when you come here they have to accuse you of being here. When we get to know each other and become brothers, solutions emerge. To get rid of vices and drug addictions, for example, there are plants that can easily heal people.
Monkey Penis is a thick tree, which I have used to cure two foreign women of AIDS. The name means “monkey penis”. I saw in my ayahuasca vision that they were sick and I diagnosed them with AIDS. I boiled the bark of the tree and made 6 bottles which they drank every day until they were finished. They had to go on a diet too. No fish with teeth, salt, fruit or butter. The toothy fish eats the plant so that it cannot enter the body. After this you get so hot that steam comes out of the body. There is no AIDS in the jungle, only a few cases in the city of Pucullpa.